水草情迷

HI ALL,

今天已聯絡上TOP CENTURY的老闆...
1. 之前那個PRICE LIST是零售價, 批發價大約HALF PRICE, 100個左右 =P , 大缸好有SO AR....
2. 老闆CONFIRM有BLACKLIGHT LED (UV LED)
3. 不幸, 我不明白老闆說HQI vs MR16果 part...... 我覺得佢覺得用LED代替HQI係發顛的想發...^^"
4. red + blue LED 係可以CONNECT一起, 如果要diy, 佢給你電圖 HOHO.....
5. 水氣的問題, 佢叫我用膠片隔離D燈 @@
6. 如果有去過top century的朋友, 店內的右手邊有個現成的燈座...佢話最細可能有1', 佢係出面現成買的...好平ga wor...DIY一流, 佢幫我看看先.
7. 上次忘記幫大飛2004問萬用版一事, SORRY.... 老闆說:"可以, 但好肉酸!" @@
8. 上次幫GWU問改裝一事.... 唔知上次果個係唔係唔話得事LEI, 我試機再幫GWU問多一次...哈哈...佢又話可以LA WOR (但一定香港貸)...奇怪.... ^^"
9. HEHE....佢OFFER $85@ MR16 15 pcs LED with SF-50TW 94-A (仲好鬼貴)


我早幾天找到的:
1. 一些我一直都唔明白的東西.....
http://www.enlightenment.co.uk/frames/basic/w-glos.htm
- Lumen: The amount of light energy within an area.
- Lumens Per Watt: The light output in lumens produced by a source for each watt of electrical power required by the lamp.
- Luminous Intensity: A measure of the energy from a light source emitted in a particular direction, as measured in candelas.
- Lux: The metric measurement relating to incident light that falls on a subject (10.8 lux = 1 foot-candle)
- Candela: Unit of luminous intensity.
2. http://www.getsomesoft.com/Education/Sc ... erter.html
download la ... (如果有必要)
係一個單位對換機....
click "luminous intensity" ---> 1 candle (international) (cd)= 1 lumen (international) .... 記住mcd就要除1000 wor...(hehe...唔好似我gum大頭蝦)
3. 我lei諗唔dim 紅加藍LED ar...現在先集中想白色LED先....
如果10" x 10" x 10"草缸.... 我計過ga la....SF-50TW 94-A係最好的 (個人建議~), 老闆說係最高級的LED (我出了圖, 佢先話比我知是最高級呢, 不是事後孔明ar), hehe...成為$4.5一粒. 13L水要大約90粒.... 如果要tailor-made lei....haha..., 自己diy都要五百幾. 用MR16仲平...............(其實lei...我諗緊cheap D 的LED得唔得=P)
我用我的概念出左兩個idea (好ideal =P), 有建議請說/請問 (JPG 好差, 我有ORIGINAL COPY -- AUTOCAD, illustrator format, high resolution of jpg, 要的話PM我, 並告訴的你的e-mail + 你要的format和vision):

Thank you very much for your information.

Have you brought those LED? It seems quite expensive for it. How much Voltage you would like to use to power it? And the total Power of it will be?

I'm thinking of DIY using some cheaper "white" LED for the 10" cube tank. However, the connection plate is still a problem for me.

u are welcome, 大飛2004,

i am so sorry that i still not buy those LEDs....
yes, i think it is too expensive.... there are not much different from DIY and MR16. (MR16 may be a bit cheaper). i wonder to buy the cheaper LED (but i think it is not much different, too. cos' i have to buy more quantity of LEDs to instead of worser quality). beside to use cheaper LED, i am curious to use LED with T5HO or PL two together..... but it may be quite meaningless..... @@ (still thinking on it) or i guess we can buy less MR16 if use blue and red light ray only

well well well.....i dunno how much Voltage. Top century will help me to count over all those technical problem if i really order one. (cos' i know nothing on it and tired to calculate anymore.)

what do u mean "total power"? hmmm.... i count 100mW for each LED. if i use 90 pcs of LED, that means i can get 9W totally. i dunno whether it can be reduced by the resistor or other things.(i forget to ask top century be4, silly me....^^"). they tell me that....low energy can make it work.... one philips ballast can connect all together.

yes, i have the same problem with u, too. it is difficult for me to connect electrical things.... =P
top century tell me....each "leg" of LED have to connect 1 electrical coil and 1 LED have 2 "legs". if i have to connect 90 pcs of LED within 10" X 10" area ......................................@@ god!180 long electrical coils ar at least..........!!!
when i imagine of it, i really want to give it up! it is really a huge problem for a gal ha. (sorry, what a big excuse!! =P)

i feel it is good for large tank (or depth tank). cheaper (to compare with HQI), save energy and not so hot (it can save other sub-energy). in fact, top century suggested to borrow some of MR16 for us to test it be4.... but.... i tell him it is useless to use some only. cos' we can't sure if the grass undergo a well photosynthesis with use some LED only. so, i'm kindly to refuse them. (am i silly?)

Thanks a lot for your reply.

Will you consider their Flood Light Series?
Don't know how much is it.[/img]

aiya 大飛2004,

u are welcome. u remind me to ask for it ar.....>< silly silly!!
THX A LOT !!!!

i always think i forgot to ask something ga la..... yes! is that!
i try to check this out later.....

hehe...have u see "Finding Nemo"? i am Dolly~ =P

cya,
Winz

hello 大飛2004 again,

i had asked for this today.... 2 extremely shock news ....

1. For the Flood Light Series (in white colour):
- TCSL1 Series:
* should be 168 pcs of LED
* the most powerful one is TCSL1-25 Series.
* the worst one is TCSL1-2545 Series. it costs $1200. (crazy ha)
* standard TCSL1 Series should be base on SF-50TW94 LED.
* TCSL1-25 should be made by SF-50TW94-B LED
* TCSL1-45 should be made by SF-50TW94-C LED (for others, i didn't ask so detail)
* TCSL1-2545 Series is a funny one. they mix with 80 pcs SF-50TW94-B LED (inner) and 88 pcs SF-50TW94-C LED (outer). it purposes for increasing the beam angle without losing high amount of luminous intensity.
* u can order the specific type of LED. the price will be adjusted by different kind of LED (depends on quality and quantity.)

[ i think it is too powerful for 168 pcs SF-50TW94 LEDs work together within 180mm x 150mm area. am i correct? i think we can downgrade the LEDs for the Flood Light Series. i wonder if it will be cheaper for tailor-made Flood Light.]

- TCSL2 Series:
* should be 340 pcs LEDs
* sorry...i didn't ask any more detail on it... cos' i feel it is in dramatic price and it is too strong for a grass tank!


another crazy news is about MR16..........

2. i really dun understand what they told me me last week (or today)....
LAST WEEK, i contacted to the boss directly. he told me MR-16 (made in HK) should be base one SF-50TW94. he can offer $85@ for 15 pcs LEDs one.
however, the salse told me that it is impossible TODAY. cos' MR-16 is NOT base on SF-50TW94. it should be base on SF-50TW44 (which is 5000-6000 mcd). the original price of MR-16 with SF-50TW94 LEDs should be $236@ Q.Q

[i swear i didn't make mistake for the model number last week! i swear~ i swear~ i swear~ ]


hehe .... any tricks above? i dunno~ which one is cheaper? sorry.... none of above!
let's think of red LED~~ it is nearly half price to compare with the white one! and red one work much more proper than the white one! (will it stimulate grass to grow faster? that's the merest anxiety of mine!)

ok.... dun dream on white one any more right now! (if u are not dicty~) T.T ..... i still dream of MR16 15 pcs SF-50TW94-A LEDs for $85 be4 ga ma.... T.T hopeless NOW! okok.... go away my dream.....

however, red + blue is another challenge for me!
- how's to solve the problem of narrow beam angle?
- how many red and blue LEDs should be use?
.
.
.
anyone else got idea(ssssssss)?

提供一点建议：

就LED灯而言，完全可以用220V交流控制，如此就可以不用变压器，从而杜绝噪音，以及减少体积。灯具可以做到3cm厚度以下。所谓的220V控制，就是在220V输入后，用4个二极管做桥对整流成直流。然后多个LED串连即可。一般每个Led再并连一个500欧姆电阻，增加故障冗余。
有关防潮，完全可以买一罐 易力高或道康宁的三防胶（防潮，防盐雾，防短路），喷至电路板上即可。更极端的就是把整个成品电路板用透明环氧树脂浸涂。如此，保用10年都可。

Winz，
用LED照明，我也有興趣(工作關係，有小小認識)，不用灰心，平有平的玩法。 當我set好缸大家談談，有時間到這里看看。Full Spectrum 的LED及有關LED的基本知識，電阻計算方法等等。
http://www.theledlight.com/

電阻計算方法也可以看看下列。
http://metku.net/index.html?sect=view&n=1&path=mods/ledcalc/index_eng

hi 阿新,
先謝謝你的資料


hi MKHo,
也很多謝你的資料, 你一定會比我更pro了

早前真的很灰心, 做獨腳戲, 好似玩show off gum.. 這不是我最初的目的, 直到有一位仁兄說:"約要人似我, 除非兩個我", 心灰到極點. 他說的也沒錯, 當分享者變成傻瓜, 我原先的目的也變了質, 這樣使我也沒有興趣分享了. 反正有興趣者, 早就PM了我. 我也早就藏起自己玩了, 有空就玩, 壓力反而少了.

theledlight.com我早就看過, 也是第一次看到Full Spectrum 的LED spec. 有晒RGB, 我都好suprise, 只因之前D人玩, 都唔係玩Full Spectrum. 可惜我得個"恨"字.

總之, 我萬分感謝你的資料, 如果我有technical 的東西要問, 我就PM 你ga la. 起碼你可以用software計luminous intensity la, 幾pro ar...我仲傻傻地用 interior design 的計燈方法ar...hehe ^^"


hi all,
如果大家對LED的熱情未減, 就用心看看下面的information (請不用只看部分內容, 就到處胡說), 因為本人真的用心看了很多才分享, 加上打中文字慢, 使用的時間不是人人可以想像到的. 而且我的表達能力差, 不細心看, 可能就不明白我說什麼了, 也會miss左D information. 沒有興趣, 就無謂浪費時間看了, 反正都是悶旦post!

如何選擇你們適合的LED color spectrum?
要選擇spectrum之前, 本人會先考慮水中植物怎樣用光去進行光合作用.
而植物中的chlorophyll(葉綠素)就是光合作用中的重要pigment, chlorophyll分為chlorophyll-a, chlorophyll-b, chlorophyll-c... ...
- chlorophyll-a (Chl. a):
* 是chlorophyll中最重要的, 在"higher plants" (高等植物?),"photosynthetic organisms"(光合作用的生物?) 中無所不在, 包括: "cyanobacteria" (so call "藍綠藻"?), "prochlorophytes" 和 "eukaryotic algae"
* chlorophyll-a把"水", "二氧化碳", "光"變成"Formaldehyde" (CH2O), "水", "氧氣":
2H2O + CO2 + light -- Chl. a --> (CH2O) + H2O + O2
* chlorophyll-a也會用light energy去 oxidize "水"
2H2O + light -- Chl. a --> 4H+ + 4e + O2
* 藍綠色的
- chlorophyll-b (Chl. b):
* 只有在"green algae" (綠色的藻類?) 和"plants" (植物?) 中運作
* 會/不會和chlorophyll-c 一起
* 黃綠色的
- chlorophyll-c (Chl. c):
* 基本上是不會在"plants"上運作 (只有很少量和Chl.a一起運作)
* 多數出現在水中生態
* chlorophyll-c 是在"Chromista" (光合作用的其中一個要素)裡, 而Chromista多是咖啡色的和金黃色的. eg. "Diatom" (so-call "啡藻")就有chlorophyll-c了.
(還有"chl. a/b"和"chl. d", 但我不詳談了)

好了, 看完一大堆data
我們可以選擇光的spectrum了, 看看下圖(wavelenghtVSchl.jpg) -- "normalized absorption spectra(正常的吸收光譜?)" 它明確指出, chlorophyll a, b, c 都在藍光中最活躍, 可是, chlorophyll b在青藍光中也異常活躍, 我立刻疑問藍光會否太有利"green algae"生長了 (除非我們的LED在藍光中的peak是exactly440nm左右), 否則, 如果major用藍光, 肥料的控制一定要很好.
再看看, 紅光真的比較理想, chl. a在紅光中, 表現比其他chlorophyll強, chl. c更是機乎在紅光中招架不著 (即"啡藻"會生長困難了).

我想, 看到現在, 如何選擇LED的spectrum, 大家各自都有了定論, 各有所需了!
(請不用問我關於chlorophy a 和 b的不同function, 因為太深, 我也不明白了, 如果有大大知道, 煩請告知)


最後, 我覺得最有趣是把不同的"PL", "T8", "T5", "T5HO", "HQI", "RGB LED" 和 "normalized absorption spectra"的GRAPH放在一起compare...hehe...看看"RGB LED"的spectrum都唔係好差jei (個人議見).
osram pl 36W 4100k:

osram t5 35W 4100k / osram t5HO 39W 4100K:

Toyoda RBG LED:

Philips PL-L 2700, 3000, 3500, 4100k:
http://www.lighting.philips.com/nam/pro ... 3563-B.pdf
[sorry, 我無辦法找到PL 6000k, T5 (HO) 6000k, HQI 的Spectral Power Distribution Graph (hehe...其實係懶 hoho =P), 如果大家有時間找到的, 咪分享下lor, THX]
>>> 注意 <<<
- 以上(下)的graph, y-axis係唔同units
- 如果有興趣, 在這裡, click入 "Engineering Bulletin - High Intensity Discharge Metalarc Lamps", download 一個3.10 MB的*pdf file, 在第14頁, 有一堆Metalarc Lamps的Spectral Power Distribution Graph, 我想會比較接近HQI的Spectrum:
http://ecom.mysylvania.com/sylvaniab2c/ ... 3005825End


note:
- 本人不是一個良好的翻譯員, 有好多term都不懂中文
- compare完d graph, 本人不覺得LED特別"天生係代替唔到光管同鹵仔" (hehe, 因為我以上提及過的所有燈, spectrum"天生"都唔係好合種草, 想到這裡, 又灰心起來tim)
- 以上如有錯誤, 請通知更正, THX!

source from:
http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/glossary/g ... ments.html
http://ecom.mysylvania.com/sylvaniab2c/ ... 3005825End
http://www.philips.com
http://www.toyoda-gosei.com/products/opto/01.html
Paul G. Falkowski, John A. Raven, Aquatic Photosynthesis

Hi Winz,

Sorry for my very late response. I was quite busy these days. Yes, the price of the flood light is very expensive.

Recently, I have a new thought (a crazy dream)... hee... Have you heard Luxeon Star (http://www.luxeonstar.com)? Seems that their 1W or 5W LED is quite common for using in flashlight now. Famous brand like Sure Fire, Streamlight, UK, Princetontech...etc. all use their product in their new serials of flashlight. The colour of their LED is more white than the others and the brightness is equal to 10~30 normal LEDs. I don't know whether it is suitable for planting but I do think that the installation/setup should be more easy as we'll use only 4~5 (5w) or 10~15 (1w) to light up the tank.

However, it is very expensive at this moment.

hi 大飛2004,

welcome back

yes, i heard it be4, too. it is a common flashlight for hiking ppl right now.
i know it from other hiking webs. they use it to instead of mudlight. it should be reliable on brightness / luminous. however, they use mostly USA/Japan grade's LED.

actually, one of folks here, bought a China LED flashlight at SSP. he said the emissive power is bright eought at the bottom of grass tank. nice?

haha....if a small area can get 5W, how cool ....hohoo
THX for ur information!

ps.
- crazy dream is always a good starting
- there are many LED flashlight reports on internet. here is one of them:
http://members.aol.com/qn9513/myhomepag ... ghtl6.html
- some of hiking ppl try to DIY their own LED torch.
http://www.hiking.com.hk/discus/message ... 1067539686
however, for us.......huge scale... and how crazy NOW!


hi all,

some funny websites about LED:

1. http://www.microlamps-tg.com/html/Prod_ ... ompare.htm
there are 3 types of white LEDs. 2 of them are RGB LEDs.
the first one (RGB All-In-One) sounds pretty good. hmm..but i dunno its power!


2. http://www.microlamps.com/whats_new.htm
the most funny page! they talk about what most ppl care --- $$$$$$$$$$$$$$
they compare the consumption cost to Incandescent Lamp and LED. crazy? (but it is a LED ad., for fun. ok?)

3. http://www.candlepowerforums.com/ubbthr ... ed&sb=5&o=
it a LED forum (lighting forums actually). many folks there. ask them if u got technical problem.

4. http://www.microlamps-tg.com/data/video/TGmidband.WMV (4.76MB)
back to the begining, it is a 6 mins movie about LED in english (TG LED ad.). it is a basic concept of LED. no need to read TEXT ma, hehe...listen only...
watch out the very last product, it looks like a Incandescent Lamp. in fact, i have a similiar concept of it too, but i will put LED at the both ends of tube (instead of a linear arrangement.) btw, it is a concept only.

enjoy it!

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/foru ... php?t=1068

This might help.

hi Macbrush,
thx~ i noticed it, too. now, spectrum of Luxeon is not good enough, too. and they have no true white product. btw, great progress on LED technology.


hi all,
最近, 聯絡上TG, 會令大家失望了 (也有驚喜):
- TG的true white LED雖然研究成功, 但只為價錢太貴, 技術上還有些東西要fix, 所以還未mass production. T-T
- 他們暫時(在香港)最強的白色LED也只有6000-8200mcd (rank 6). [spec. 在下面]. 個sales show 比我睇時, 中間的藍光還是很強呢. 不過日本方面已經正在producting高一個grade的LED, 同一個spec. 改為8200-11200mcd (rank 7) (part no.: E1L51-YWOC*-01). hehe...這個消息是剛剛從日本帶回香港. 最遲兩三個月就有貨lu, 除了spectrum, 這LED好像不錯.
- 個sales話, 叫我等下.... 佢話LED的價格會在不久的將來下降, 佢又話下年這個時候一定會平很多.
- 他們現在的LED 係 super bright (超光), 在不久的將來, high power的LED (Luxeon是high power的LED, 但是比較熱) 就會取代super bright做照明, 而且也不會太藍 (我估係有3000K左右的LED)
- 我在上面提過的"RGB All-In-One" LED (不是"RGB All-In-One + Purple"), 原來已經係TG的舊product了, 光度很差勁的...唔好諗lu.
(這天, 我遇到一個好好的Sales, 雖然明知我唔係大客, 但也給了我很多寶貴資料, 謝謝他!)

唔好意思各位, 煩請懂得接駁LED電路的朋友幫幫忙!

我有上面post (spec.)上的TOYODA LED, 15粒, 我已經問過鴨記, 佢d大佬叫我用下圖的AC Adaptor, 用並聯, 正去正, 負去負駁就可以推到最光 ga la wor...

但其實的有d懷疑, 因為個AC Adaptor是300mA, 我好怕會燒懷LED. 第二, 並聯是"正去正, 負去負"嗎? ( 我很懷疑這樣駁, 是不會著的)

最後我是否應該把AC Adaptor調去12V才能推到最光, 又不致會燒呢?

煩請各路英雄幫幫忙, 看看下面簡陋的電路圖. 指點, 指點, 看看有沒有問題.
謝謝!
Winz

TO Winz
這個電路是妳自己畫的吧？並聯不是這樣的。並聯是把所有的正接在一起，所有的負也接在一起，然后電源的正接在LED共有的正，電源負接在LED共有的負。
LED的電壓一般不超過4V，如果是上面post (spec.)上的TOYODA LED，寫明是3.9V，所以妳的AC Adaptor 就調到4.5V，或者3V吧。4.5V是有點多，不過如果LED不會髮熱嚴重，可以用的，也就會推到最光。

至于電流，並聯的電流是加在一起的，所以在(spec.)上寫20MA，那么就15乘以20MA等于300MA，好像剛剛好夠。如果按(spec.)上寫的30MA，那就不夠。而且通常標註的會比較誇一些。所以如果妳要推到最光，電源的功率可能不夠。
我給妳的建議是，先接起來用一下，還是可以用的。不過要推到最光，要換個大功率一些的AC Adaptor 吧